A class with fully leveled talents will perform much better( in aggro/debuff/damage/healer). It makes NA tera players have disadvantage(they design 30men raid base on a enviorment with talent system)

Do you agree or not? and why?

yeap i agree talents are too strong on class... in others tera regions have potion cooldown reduction and % skill damage for moore damage...

No, because the dungeon is designed around gear sets, and not how the talent system affects certain classes.

No, we will have ktera videos that will allow us clear in the first week.

We dont need discover the mechanics by ourselfs.

The average run time in NA will be longer but not harder.

for example, vm8+15 will improve ur skill power/damage by 1400, Fireblast hit 8000 then we got 9400 damage non crit with only gears(for NA). While the talent system given 32power,25% chance put a dot that deal 1000damage persec(more power for the new overchannel too) We got more than 11800 damage for that fireblast. isn't that make them kill the boss faster/heal better Etc?

Just like in WOW. wipe couple times and people will figure out. There are many top guild will release video after first kill. Not like the 30 men raid will be remove after 2 months. Learning is the same

You've been out of the loop then.

Since we're not getting the talent system we're getting class balance patches PLUS the up coming class re vamps. It'll be a cake walk as per the norm. PvE as always. Beyond a joke now.

just You do SSHM with 3dps ( average 500k/s) vs 3 slaying pro ninja(2.23m/s) you can kill the boss under 4mins which skip waves of mob(5,10, 15 +++++++) and pizza. higher Dps does make dungeon easier.

Jace21 wrote: »

just You do SSHM with 3dps ( average 500k/s) vs 3 slaying pro ninja(2.23m/s) you can kill the boss under 4mins which skip waves of mob(5,10, 15 +++++++) and pizza. higher Dps does make dungeon easier.

or skilled players that can do this, make the dungeon easier?

what do u mean by getting Class balance patches plus the up coming class revamps? we just getting the same class balance and class revamp from ktera minuse the talents balance party. yet we still missing the system that provide more( aggro/debuff/damage/healer/rng resets)

well having skill to do slaying(have the talent system) and no slaying crystals avaiable in game( no talent system) is different.

Ketoth wrote: »

Jace21 wrote: »

just You do SSHM with 3dps ( average 500k/s) vs 3 slaying pro ninja(2.23m/s) you can kill the boss under 4mins which skip waves of mob(5,10, 15 +++++++) and pizza. higher Dps does make dungeon easier.

or skilled players that can do this, make the dungeon easier?

Not giving us talent system just like take away the option to do Slaying in the first place. want/don't wanna do is different from can and can not do.

@Jace21
Get over it! No other region is getting talents, will be getting class balance instead.

what do you mean getting class balance instead? you me we getting exclusive class balances other than the one from ktera? get over it?
how do you feel if warrior ,bladedraw/ sorcerer , fireblast/ ninja ,fire avalance, etc is only ktera exclusive?

Where is GM/ COMMUNITY MANAGER?

Why you crying about a talent system that was more broken than the currently over buffed reaper is?

We're at least getting something to compensate for the system that Bluehole simply discontinued to use.

Jace21 wrote: »

what do you mean getting class balance instead? you me we getting exclusive class balances other than the one from ktera? get over it?
how do you feel if warrior ,bladedraw/ sorcerer , fireblast/ ninja ,fire avalance, etc is only ktera exclusive?

All regions will be getting class balance.

Don't care if those things are exclusive to kTera, it won't affect my gameplay in nTera.

It'll be fine. the 30-man raid is designed to be balanced around group synergy rather than gear. yes, better gear will make it easier, but that doesn't mean it will be impossible without certain systems in place. what will be a bigger variable is the amount of lag we will get due to lack of or inadequate attempt at optimization. plus, it might take a few weeks for anyone to get wyvern gear.

I'm more worried whether there will be nice people to let me in on their raid in my server

Jace21 wrote: »

what do you mean getting class balance instead? you me we getting exclusive class balances other than the one from ktera? get over it?
how do you feel if warrior ,bladedraw/ sorcerer , fireblast/ ninja ,fire avalance, etc is only ktera exclusive?

1. We are not competing with Ktera or any other region for dps/clear time, we are only competing with other NA players, so no disadvantage
2. I main sorc, and no I dont care if Ktera sorc hit harder than I do
3. Wtf are you trying to say with all that slaying nonsense? If you are skilled enough to do it then good, if not git gud
4. Talent system does not triples or even double your dps, only ~10-20% from what I read
5. If 30 man raid is designed around talent system, so would sshm be, and NA clears sshm just fine

We would be 10-20% more fine clearing sshm with talents

/s

NA without talent system has shown it has players capable of outdoing KTera players, even when on average we have higher ping. The talent system is messy and halfassed and full of bugs, I for one am happy we don't have it. Also, BHS has said repeteadly they don't balance content around talents, only around base classes.

So 30 man being harder is entirely on the players forming the raid, not talents. If you are a good player and can gather similarly minded players (that's the point of MMOs!) you have nothing to worry about.

Banim wrote: »

NA without talent system has shown it has players capable of outdoing KTera players, even when on average we have higher ping. The talent system is messy and halfassed and full of bugs, I for one am happy we don't have it. Also, BHS has said repeteadly they don't balance content around talents, only around base classes.

So 30 man being harder is entirely on the players forming the raid, not talents. If you are a good player and can gather similarly minded players (that's the point of MMOs!) you have nothing to worry about.

You beat me to saying it, but exactly this.

Ginjitsu wrote: »

Jace21 wrote: »

what do you mean getting class balance instead? you me we getting exclusive class balances other than the one from ktera? get over it?
how do you feel if warrior ,bladedraw/ sorcerer , fireblast/ ninja ,fire avalance, etc is only ktera exclusive?

All regions will be getting class balance.

Don't care if those things are exclusive to kTera, it won't affect my gameplay in nTera.

We are paying overprice(dollar to won) defective product( not getting part of the content/new system). we should just suck it up and keep paying?

People in NA just really like the company say : [filtered] you, pay me?

seraphinush wrote: »

It'll be fine. the 30-man raid is designed to be balanced around group synergy rather than gear. yes, better gear will make it easier, but that doesn't mean it will be impossible without certain systems in place. what will be a bigger variable is the amount of lag we will get due to lack of or inadequate attempt at optimization. plus, it might take a few weeks for anyone to get wyvern gear.

I'm more worried whether there will be nice people to let me in on their raid in my server

they said the 30men raid is design for the best of best players( i am sure people will only take "elite") lmao

generalderpy014 wrote: »

Jace21 wrote: »

what do you mean getting class balance instead? you me we getting exclusive class balances other than the one from ktera? get over it?
how do you feel if warrior ,bladedraw/ sorcerer , fireblast/ ninja ,fire avalance, etc is only ktera exclusive?

1. We are not competing with Ktera or any other region for dps/clear time, we are only competing with other NA players, so no disadvantage
2. I main sorc, and no I dont care if Ktera sorc hit harder than I do
3. Wtf are you trying to say with all that slaying nonsense? If you are skilled enough to do it then good, if not git gud
4. Talent system does not triples or even double your dps, only ~10-20% from what I read
5. If 30 man raid is designed around talent system, so would sshm be, and NA clears sshm just fine

how do you git gud? if they don't even let u obtain the slaying crystal(i am comparing slaying crystal with talent system lmao)?
and 10-20% is a lot.: for example IRL you making $ 80k a year, if you live in korea9still get pay with dollars) u charge no tax, but u get tax 20% out of your income in NA. will you give a shi t then?

EllieChu wrote: »

We would be 10-20% more fine clearing sshm with talents

/s

I know right. Life in tera will be so much easier for everyone in NA , if they just give us the whole product

Ktera needs the talent they system korean players are pretty bad

Banim wrote: »

NA without talent system has shown it has players capable of outdoing KTera players, even when on average we have higher ping. The talent system is messy and halfassed and full of bugs, I for one am happy we don't have it. Also, BHS has said repeteadly they don't balance content around talents, only around base classes.

So 30 man being harder is entirely on the players forming the raid, not talents. If you are a good player and can gather similarly minded players (that's the point of MMOs!) you have nothing to worry about.

but a same player(good one) with perform differently with and without the talent system(about 10-25% differ )

marklol wrote: »

Ktera needs the talent they system korean players are pretty bad

what..?

Anyone Playing WOW: Legion? I am so sick of BHS trying to sell us Halfass(not 100% content) product while we contribute the same or even more to their income.

WTB talent system Spacecats

Wow dude, you're pretty annoying you know that?

Also:

Moroku wrote: »

Wow dude, you're pretty annoying you know that?

Also:

Wow dude, you're also annoying you know that?

It was already confirmed that Talents will not be released outside of Korea.

Danicia wrote:

Hello all,

The system will not be released outside Korea. Development and support on this system as ceased, which means that no other regions will be receiving it. either. There have been numerous technical issues and major bugs, which BHS continues to try to fix. We cannot optimize or tweak it, nor do we have the resources to support it.

That's all we have right now, until the Production Team gets back from Korea later this week.

[filtered], it's a dead project.

====

Also, are you sure that Talents are really going to benefit everyone? If you look through the list, some classes like Brawlers/Reapers massively benefit from Talents, where other classes (like Warriors) only really get some small damage buffs that are useful...

clfarron4 wrote: »

It was already confirmed that Talents will not be released outside of Korea.

Danicia wrote:

Hello all,

The system will not be released outside Korea. Development and support on this system as ceased, which means that no other regions will be receiving it. either. There have been numerous technical issues and major bugs, which BHS continues to try to fix. We cannot optimize or tweak it, nor do we have the resources to support it.

That's all we have right now, until the Production Team gets back from Korea later this week.

[filtered], it's a dead project.

====

Also, are you sure that Talents are really going to benefit everyone? If you look through the list, some classes like Brawlers/Reapers massively benefit from Talents, where other classes (like Warriors) only really get some small damage buffs that are useful...

first of all,Big or small we still lost damage compare to ktera players. Second of all, EME programmers need git gud and somehow support the talent system in NA that will be amazing( spend less time to " optimize/tweak/ use resources to support more new customs/mounts). don't try to sell us more item if you can't even bring us the whole product this all i am going say,

Talk about forum spam. Lmao

It seems the Talent System was considered a failed project even on KTera itself.
Why would we want another broken system?

I'm more interested in knowing if there will be any sort of optimization to the game.
Otherwise the experience should be similar to the old Nexus/Dreadstorm.
I'm looking forward to KTera's gameplay videos myself.

Margarethe wrote: »

It seems the Talent System was considered a failed project even on KTera itself.
Why would we want another broken system?

I'm more interested in knowing if there will be any sort of optimization to the game.
Otherwise the experience should be similar to the old Nexus/Dreadstorm.
I'm looking forward to KTera's gameplay videos myself.

"Optimizations" are already confirmed, in the form of changes on how skill effects work on other party members, and a new option to tone them down from options.

I think they will make the 30 man raid based a bit more towards our class balance than they do in ktera based off their class balance and talent system. Ofc the 30 man raid will be difficult at first but I don't think it will be issue clearing it once everyone figures it out and gets experience.

Talent system would be nice but it's already known that that it won't be coming to NA and we just have to live with it. It's not necessary to clear content but yes there are some classes that would benefit from it if there was one. Not all classes would benefit as others though. Of course it might take a little longer to clear content than in ktera but I mean there are really good players in NA tera who can regularly clear stuff. Maybe some people just need to get good at their own class and learn how to carry their own weight.

We're not comparing ourselves to ktera. Saying that it will be harder than NA, well we don't know that yet for sure. Ofc we will see how ktera does when it releases during the 1st week. Everything in my experience has always been hard at first and even I would tell myself that like when I attempted fihm, ssh or dsu. After sometime, it's not too hard. I believe the same will be with 30 man raid. I'm more worried about the lag and the management of putting together a good team.

Moroku wrote: »

Talk about forum spam. Lmao

Yup just keep being a troll. i am sure you know you are annoying( that s your goal right?)

feazeshero wrote: »

I think they will make the 30 man raid based a bit more towards our class balance than they do in ktera based off their class balance and talent system. Ofc the 30 man raid will be difficult at first but I don't think it will be issue clearing it once everyone figures it out and gets experience.

Talent system would be nice but it's already known that that it won't be coming to NA and we just have to live with it. It's not necessary to clear content but yes there are some classes that would benefit from it if there was one. Not all classes would benefit as others though. Of course it might take a little longer to clear content than in ktera but I mean there are really good players in NA tera who can regularly clear stuff. Maybe some people just need to get good at their own class and learn how to carry their own weight.

We're not comparing ourselves to ktera. Saying that it will be harder than NA, well we don't know that yet for sure. Ofc we will see how ktera does when it releases during the 1st week. Everything in my experience has always been hard at first and even I would tell myself that like when I attempted fihm, ssh or dsu. After sometime, it's not too hard. I believe the same will be with 30 man raid. I'm more worried about the lag and the management of putting together a good team.

Hum. Not just comparing the damage with ktera, Let's say the new 30 men raid got some tough shield phase(or need to burst down boss's HP to a point or wipe) mechanic, Ktera will has higher chance( advantage) to get through that phase because the extra 10-25% damage from the talent system.

Yes, the talent system means the 30 man raid is easier on Ktera. Not sure why people are implying anything but that, because to say otherwise is just plain stupid.

The real question though, is whether or not that is actually a bad thing?

I don't think it is a bad thing, really.

But I do disagree with them not adding talents to other regions. It means the intended balance will always be out of whack for us, since obviously BHS doesn't really consider other regions when balancing, no matter how much people like to think they do. Our voice is just a minor nagging one, that may influence them a little, at best.

Their balancing will always be done with talents in the picture.

It's pretty much official that we won't have a talent system. Here, three different points about it.

In a completely hypothetical setting, maybe those wanting it can try to convince everyone else to stop paying elite or buying elin costumes to force EME to get it here, from which most likely BHS will just call the NA market dead and instead close the game here. See, no game, Go play WoW because you killed Tera.

Now, as far as I know, this game can be played free. You only need to pay your internet connection feed (or have someone else pay them for you while you go through the 'broke university student' phase of your life) and you also need to spend time and effort playing the game. So having or not a complete or not product shouldn't affect a f2p player. Heck, AT LEAST this isn't Sega who ACTUALLY wants you to pay real money for a half product like the Phantasy Star series. They costed pretty much the same on both markets but Japan got like 40% more game than us here in NA. The PSP versions were really bad culprits on this. No wonder why they now can't release a game here. Heck they don't even have a NA website anymore. kek.

Lastly, if they give NA players a more difficult setting, then more power to those who clear it, as they will be much better players and because at the average player ages around here, epeen is still a HUGE part of their lives, achieving this content with more work than others just serves to make that epeen much bigger, and brag rights still count around here, no?

Anyway. As always, not meant to offend. Just saying them as I see them. Also, got up right now after resting from night shift at work. Haven't eaten enough and that makes me cranky.

Jace21 wrote: »

Ginjitsu wrote: »

Jace21 wrote: »

what do you mean getting class balance instead? you me we getting exclusive class balances other than the one from ktera? get over it?
how do you feel if warrior ,bladedraw/ sorcerer , fireblast/ ninja ,fire avalance, etc is only ktera exclusive?

All regions will be getting class balance.

Don't care if those things are exclusive to kTera, it won't affect my gameplay in nTera.

We are paying overprice(dollar to won) defective product( not getting part of the content/new system). we should just suck it up and keep paying?

People in NA just really like the company say : [filtered] you, pay me?

No... We're not paying for kTera content, we're paying for nTera content...

Jace21 wrote: »

Anyone Playing WOW: Legion? I am so sick of BHS trying to sell us Halfass(not 100% content) product while we contribute the same or even more to their income.

Go post in their forums if you're playing WoW.

Jace21 wrote: »

clfarron4 wrote: »

It was already confirmed that Talents will not be released outside of Korea.

Danicia wrote:

Hello all,

The system will not be released outside Korea. Development and support on this system as ceased, which means that no other regions will be receiving it. either. There have been numerous technical issues and major bugs, which BHS continues to try to fix. We cannot optimize or tweak it, nor do we have the resources to support it.

That's all we have right now, until the Production Team gets back from Korea later this week.

[filtered], it's a dead project.

====

Also, are you sure that Talents are really going to benefit everyone? If you look through the list, some classes like Brawlers/Reapers massively benefit from Talents, where other classes (like Warriors) only really get some small damage buffs that are useful...

first of all,Big or small we still lost damage compare to ktera players. Second of all, EME programmers need git gud and somehow support the talent system in NA that will be amazing( spend less time to " optimize/tweak/ use resources to support more new customs/mounts). don't try to sell us more item if you can't even bring us the whole product this all i am going say,

You can't lose something you never received. En Masse doesn't need to waste time on talent support since no other region is getting it. You don't have to pay anything, Tera is free to play.

Jace21 wrote: »

feazeshero wrote: »

I think they will make the 30 man raid based a bit more towards our class balance than they do in ktera based off their class balance and talent system. Ofc the 30 man raid will be difficult at first but I don't think it will be issue clearing it once everyone figures it out and gets experience.

Talent system would be nice but it's already known that that it won't be coming to NA and we just have to live with it. It's not necessary to clear content but yes there are some classes that would benefit from it if there was one. Not all classes would benefit as others though. Of course it might take a little longer to clear content than in ktera but I mean there are really good players in NA tera who can regularly clear stuff. Maybe some people just need to get good at their own class and learn how to carry their own weight.

We're not comparing ourselves to ktera. Saying that it will be harder than NA, well we don't know that yet for sure. Ofc we will see how ktera does when it releases during the 1st week. Everything in my experience has always been hard at first and even I would tell myself that like when I attempted fihm, ssh or dsu. After sometime, it's not too hard. I believe the same will be with 30 man raid. I'm more worried about the lag and the management of putting together a good team.

Hum. Not just comparing the damage with ktera, Let's say the new 30 men raid got some tough shield phase(or need to burst down boss's HP to a point or wipe) mechanic, Ktera will has higher chance( advantage) to get through that phase because the extra 10-25% damage from the talent system. ( just like Ktera can buy red dps crystals and we can't, How do are we going to get through SSHM imporator shield phase without the offensive crystals damage boost?)

nTera has offensive crystals and is more than capable of clearing SSHM without talent system.

BHS Official Response to this thread

1. We don't need the talent system to perform well with game content (see current SSHM/DSU)

2. EU TERA GM has revealed that BHS devs "confirmed to us that any class balancing is not made with the talent system in mind. Instead they base it on the "core" game that all regions have to avoid balance problems in other regions."

3. The Talent system itself comes with its own bugs, imbalances and exploits. Therefore it may bring more headache to both EME and players instead of solving anything.

As much as I love the concept of the Talent system and an alternative to improve our characters outside of the cyclic gear grinding, it appears that BHS designed it in a way that it mechanically and technically flawed at the fundamental level.

With this in mind, I am relieved (but disappointed) that the system stays in KTERA, and I am certain that its impact on the KNXXX raid is an irrelevant factor.

Squishies wrote: »

1. We don't need the talent system to perform well with game content (see current SSHM/DSU)

2. EU TERA GM has revealed that BHS devs "confirmed to us that any class balancing is not made with the talent system in mind. Instead they base it on the "core" game that all regions have to avoid balance problems in other regions."

Do you really believe in this lie? jesus

Remmoos wrote: »

Squishies wrote: »

1. We don't need the talent system to perform well with game content (see current SSHM/DSU)

2. EU TERA GM has revealed that BHS devs "confirmed to us that any class balancing is not made with the talent system in mind. Instead they base it on the "core" game that all regions have to avoid balance problems in other regions."

Do you really believe in this lie? jesus

Can't say about number 2, but for number one, DSU and SSHM are in farm mode in more than one server. So the only talent needed for those is the talent of the players.

Yes, yes it will be harder in NA.

So...

















Git gud.

I would like the talent system too, but considering it was done poorly, we're better off without it.

Just give us an all class increase by (10-15%). Btw if you can clear 30 men you cannot upgrade your vm8 to the final version and no newest brooch. Why does NA plays need to work harder to get the BIS and new brooch（higher standard, also mean less of the players can get）. we are buy the game Tera from them, not just ntera, we don't have the talent system all because for some reason EME can't support it(so just give us a damage raise for all classes).

Even just 8,10% will close the gap(tho no fun rng or resuorce(chi/mana/rage,etc) regen from the talent system is kinda sad)

Jace21 wrote: »

Even just 8,10% will close the gap(tho no fun rng or resuorce(chi/mana/rage,etc) regen from the talent system is kinda sad)

@Jace21
You know what's more sad?! The OP's inability to get over the fact that Bluehole isn't implementing talent system to other regions.

Jace21 wrote: »

seraphinush wrote: »

It'll be fine. the 30-man raid is designed to be balanced around group synergy rather than gear. yes, better gear will make it easier, but that doesn't mean it will be impossible without certain systems in place. what will be a bigger variable is the amount of lag we will get due to lack of or inadequate attempt at optimization. plus, it might take a few weeks for anyone to get wyvern gear.

I'm more worried whether there will be nice people to let me in on their raid in my server

they said the 30men raid is design for the best of best players( i am sure people will only take "elite") lmao

Not 'they said', it's more 'you said'. it's just how either me or Loriri translated the article and by no means am i emphasizing that part. i'm sure Loriri would agree as well.

Jace21 wrote: »

Anyone Playing WOW: Legion? I am so sick of BHS trying to sell us Halfass(not 100% content) product while we contribute the same or even more to their income.

What the [filtered] you smokin' because I want 690 of it.

TimesNewRamen wrote: »

Jace21 wrote: »

Anyone Playing WOW: Legion? I am so sick of BHS trying to sell us Halfass(not 100% content) product while we contribute the same or even more to their income.

What the [filtered] you smokin' because I want 690 of it.

Are you going to make a point or just keep trolling?

Jace21 wrote: »

Why does NA plays need to work harder to get

even if we were given the talent system, or a "reasonable" (read: unreasonable) boost in damage to compensate, we still already have to work harder to deal with higher ping

People are misunderstanding and overestimating Talents.

Yes, they do affect your DPS to an extent, especially bonus power talent which gives you up to 23 power at lv 20 if you have 134+ talent points. I've said this before, talent system is nothing but grind, and you will only receive it if only if you are dedicated to achieve it. I've been playing Nancer and Ninja over the past 7 months in KTERA and I'm barely around talent level 50. If I was serious about it and grinded everyday like Story did on his stream, I'd barely be scratching talent lv 80 with little less than 90 points. At first I didn't see much DPS gain from it, but after allocating points to proper talent, I started to see boosts to my DPS, but this only started around talent level 35+ on my lancer and ninja which took me around 2 months. There's also cap on Talent XP gain due to limits on Vanguard Mission as well as a cap per day like BC/KS credits.

I'd say Talents are only viable when you have at least 70~80 points because that's when you can put points on Bonus power talent lv 10 granting 12 power, and half of decent talents. However, there's a disparity here where some class just dont benefit much while Lancer, Brawler, and Ninja gain substantial boost after that point. People might say "OMG OP" after looking at the max possible (that are known so far) level for certain talent but the thing is, we only know little more than half of talents listed on the Inven database. No one knows for sure what the max talent level or values are, despite the system being introduced for around 10 months. The highest that I've seen was talent level 170 ish so far, and it takes so much effort to grind it on multiple alts according to that person, but he/she didn't say how many alts.

So tell me, how willing are you to grind that talent points? You can't grind it 24/7 because there's a cap to it per character (but you can grind on multiple alt as it is shared server-wide and current cap of character slot is 16), but you will probably barely scratch lv 70 under 2 months with 16 characters.

Also, about 30 man raid, it is said to be based on Gearing, but it does not say skilled player or anything like that. What they did mention was that they did not want a dungeon where people aimed for DPS race, but something more toward party cooperation. Just because they said "this is for end-game players" doesn't just point toward all elite players taking over top charts in high scores or showing huge DPS numbers etc. What they mean by "end-game players" are "those who purely dedicate their time and effort to play on top dungeons and aim for the highest achievable goal possible in game at every patch". The funny thing is that BHS/ NEXON are running the game by putting up events that give free gear, spoonfeeding even harder than NA or EU, literally degrading the quality of the game's element of RPG with pure grind after grind over and over until players burn themselves out until they quit. BHS needs to wake up and see what is really going on in their own game and why people are crying left and right because at this point it just tells me that each sections of the developer team in there aren't communicating much and designing whatever they want and only fixing when players cry here and there. What NEXON needs to do right now is to diversify player's opinions because currently, they're mostly listening to noobs or mediocre players instead of a good number of veterans that actually knows what the game really need.

I also keep hearing KTERA players are terrible, but what people don't realize that forums are not a good representation of all players. There's literally no difference when I look at EME forum or KTERA Inven. Maybe it's because I'm a casual and I don't know that many good players, but I dont see much actual top players on forums either-- they do pop up in reddit though. People on KTERA QQ a lot harder because their forum rules aren't as strict as EME's forum. In KTERA, call-outs are allowed, QQ's are allowed, provoking/harassment are allowed until it becomes a huge issue (they literally take pictures of some document saying A sued B and both; police/court summons,etc), they even allow scam posts if you're not caught because in the end it is pretty much your fault for being scammed, etc etc. It's to the point the only rule they have is "post threads in appropriate sections and don't do illegal stuff or they're deleted". The reason why I always say Inven is such a cancer to look at is because there's so many things wrong there. People literally make thread after thread drama, it's long enough to make soap opera out of it for your Monday morning drama.

KTERA top players just play among themselves, as if it's like like it's their own league. I've met a few, and they're monsters and cannot compare to DPS meter data from Inven. I'm sure those numbers are something I'd see when the few top NA players actually had talent system at lv134+, or even better.

Idi0ticGenius wrote: »

So tell me, how willing are you to grind that talent points? You can't grind it 24/7 because there's a cap to it per character (but you can grind on multiple alt as it is shared server-wide and current cap of character slot is 16), but you will probably barely scratch lv 70 under 2 months with 16 characters.

So we dodged a bullet there. Thanks for your insightful analysis on talents!

I already grinding 12 alts( will cut to 8 soon) for MWA and 2 main for dungeon anyway. Is really good to have something to grind at the end(the dead phase) of the patch. And the grind from talent system also stop people playing favor of the month( keep switching every big update) right?

Buff all class damage but 12% or Roit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jace21 wrote: »

Buff all class damage by 12% to compensate the absence of talent system or Roit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! @Treeshark

I think your point has been made enough times. it also seems nobody here will convince you otherwise and I'm sure staff already read your claims, which you have as any right as anybody else to express. But aren't we a little bit overboard with the "riot" thing? Or, is "Roit", as you spelled it, something different? I don't know as I'm not native English speaker. >.<

Jace21 wrote: »

Buff all class damage by 12% to compensate the absence of talent system or Roit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@Jace21
Still at it? Soon you'll get the Roit you deserve!

Nopi wrote: »

I don't know as I'm not native English speaker. >.<

i got warned for that once so good call

If they fix the optimization problem and release this. I will play the heck out of it.

Ginjitsu wrote: »

Jace21 wrote: »

Buff all class damage by 12% to compensate the absence of talent system or Roit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@Jace21
Still at it? Soon you'll get the Roit you deserve!

0.0 just trying to chill and make some buffs for NA classes

When retardation evolves, we have @Jace21

@Moroku LMFAO.

I am glad we didn't get the bonus damage tbh.

Just fix the optimisation issues, and we will deal with it regardless of dps lvl.

All @moroku do is" wow this dude is annoying", "bait work", " retardation evolves". What's next? please do the classic: Are you mad, pro? comment @Moroku

Content is just too easy after schm, i don't want cheap buffs to come tbh. If lack of talents is going to make game harder, then that's great for me. Even though i think being a little behind from ktera destroys part of the difficulty of new content, the fact that we don't have to actually explore and learn how mechanics work, saves a lot of time and wipefests. In other words content here is already cheap easier than ktera.

I am still sitting here waiting for an actual hard dungeon, i pass from that cheesy buff idea.

Bernkassyel wrote: »

Content is just too easy after schm, i don't want cheap buffs to come tbh. If lack of talents is going to make game harder, then that's great for me. Even though i think being a little behind from ktera destroys part of the difficulty of new content, the fact that we don't have to actually explore and learn how mechanics work, saves a lot of time and wipefests. In other words content here is already cheap easier than ktera.

I am still sitting here waiting for an actual hard dungeon, i pass from that cheesy buff idea.

you can always make it hard for yourself by not watching any Ktera video and take off some of your item/gear/cusumable

Jace21 wrote: »

Bernkassyel wrote: »

Content is just too easy after schm, i don't want cheap buffs to come tbh. If lack of talents is going to make game harder, then that's great for me. Even though i think being a little behind from ktera destroys part of the difficulty of new content, the fact that we don't have to actually explore and learn how mechanics work, saves a lot of time and wipefests. In other words content here is already cheap easier than ktera.

I am still sitting here waiting for an actual hard dungeon, i pass from that cheesy buff idea.

you can always make it hard for yourself by not watching any Ktera video and take off some of your item/gear/cusumable

If players have to nerf themselves because devs are unable to design and bring actual challenging content, then that's quite pathetic and sad. Anyway that's not gonna happen, what's going to happen is talent system not reaching NA/EU/JP and there won't be any scrub buff. Sorry.

Jace21 wrote: »

feazeshero wrote: »

I think they will make the 30 man raid based a bit more towards our class balance than they do in ktera based off their class balance and talent system. Ofc the 30 man raid will be difficult at first but I don't think it will be issue clearing it once everyone figures it out and gets experience.

Talent system would be nice but it's already known that that it won't be coming to NA and we just have to live with it. It's not necessary to clear content but yes there are some classes that would benefit from it if there was one. Not all classes would benefit as others though. Of course it might take a little longer to clear content than in ktera but I mean there are really good players in NA tera who can regularly clear stuff. Maybe some people just need to get good at their own class and learn how to carry their own weight.

We're not comparing ourselves to ktera. Saying that it will be harder than NA, well we don't know that yet for sure. Ofc we will see how ktera does when it releases during the 1st week. Everything in my experience has always been hard at first and even I would tell myself that like when I attempted fihm, ssh or dsu. After sometime, it's not too hard. I believe the same will be with 30 man raid. I'm more worried about the lag and the management of putting together a good team.

Hum. Not just comparing the damage with ktera, Let's say the new 30 men raid got some tough shield phase(or need to burst down boss's HP to a point or wipe) mechanic, Ktera will has higher chance( advantage) to get through that phase because the extra 10-25% damage from the talent system. ( just like Ktera can buy red dps crystals and we can't, How do are we going to get through SSHM imporator shield phase without the offensive crystals damage boost?)

Well we already have offensive crystals in NA tera and sshm shield is easy to break with a good team. A dps and myself (as lancer) broke the shield once when aggro switched to another dps because someone else died at the wrong time. It's not hard to break most times for dps. We have enough boost from the party and mostly I believe the person playing behind whatever class they're playing, have to be good.

Bernkassyel wrote: »

Content is just too easy after schm

I also agree there is too much easy content ever since schm. SSHM was the only closest for me in terms of difficulty for dungeon. Even more difficult was ds 22 Shandra Manaya and after getting my 1st clear recently, it made me think that every hard mode dungeon I have done is really nothing except pre-nerf schm and somewhat sshm.

feazeshero wrote: »

Jace21 wrote: »

feazeshero wrote: »

I think they will make the 30 man raid based a bit more towards our class balance than they do in ktera based off their class balance and talent system. Ofc the 30 man raid will be difficult at first but I don't think it will be issue clearing it once everyone figures it out and gets experience.

Talent system would be nice but it's already known that that it won't be coming to NA and we just have to live with it. It's not necessary to clear content but yes there are some classes that would benefit from it if there was one. Not all classes would benefit as others though. Of course it might take a little longer to clear content than in ktera but I mean there are really good players in NA tera who can regularly clear stuff. Maybe some people just need to get good at their own class and learn how to carry their own weight.

We're not comparing ourselves to ktera. Saying that it will be harder than NA, well we don't know that yet for sure. Ofc we will see how ktera does when it releases during the 1st week. Everything in my experience has always been hard at first and even I would tell myself that like when I attempted fihm, ssh or dsu. After sometime, it's not too hard. I believe the same will be with 30 man raid. I'm more worried about the lag and the management of putting together a good team.

Hum. Not just comparing the damage with ktera, Let's say the new 30 men raid got some tough shield phase(or need to burst down boss's HP to a point or wipe) mechanic, Ktera will has higher chance( advantage) to get through that phase because the extra 10-25% damage from the talent system. ( just like Ktera can buy red dps crystals and we can't, How do are we going to get through SSHM imporator shield phase without the offensive crystals damage boost?)

Well we already have offensive crystals in NA tera and sshm shield is easy to break with a good team. A dps and myself (as lancer) broke the shield once when aggro switched to another dps because someone else died at the wrong time. It's not hard to break most times for dps. We have enough boost from the party and mostly I believe the person playing behind whatever class they're playing, have to be good. And we don't need boost to all classes in damage. I think it would make clearing content too easy and fine the way it is now. They will make appropriate class balances.

But what happen if they nerf all class damage by 30% , can you break shield then? I am not talking about SSHM, i am using SSHM shield phase as an example. We deal 10-20% less damage(missed talent system) than Ktera right? when the 30 men raid released, we will deal 20% less damage during the shield phase in the new 30 men raid( 20% damage is really big difference between break shield or wipe). You getting my point now?

Let's say; you 9000 damage to break the shield phase in the 30men raid. in Ktera people can deal 10800 damage during shield phase . And we(NA) can only deal 8640(10800*(1-20%) ) during the 30 men raid's shield phase( mean wipe). How do you feel about that now? we wipe cause we don't have that damage boost( will you still say, it is ok? just skip this new 30 men raid all together).

Jace21 wrote: »

feazeshero wrote: »

Jace21 wrote: »

feazeshero wrote: »

I think they will make the 30 man raid based a bit more towards our class balance than they do in ktera based off their class balance and talent system. Ofc the 30 man raid will be difficult at first but I don't think it will be issue clearing it once everyone figures it out and gets experience.

Talent system would be nice but it's already known that that it won't be coming to NA and we just have to live with it. It's not necessary to clear content but yes there are some classes that would benefit from it if there was one. Not all classes would benefit as others though. Of course it might take a little longer to clear content than in ktera but I mean there are really good players in NA tera who can regularly clear stuff. Maybe some people just need to get good at their own class and learn how to carry their own weight.

We're not comparing ourselves to ktera. Saying that it will be harder than NA, well we don't know that yet for sure. Ofc we will see how ktera does when it releases during the 1st week. Everything in my experience has always been hard at first and even I would tell myself that like when I attempted fihm, ssh or dsu. After sometime, it's not too hard. I believe the same will be with 30 man raid. I'm more worried about the lag and the management of putting together a good team.

Hum. Not just comparing the damage with ktera, Let's say the new 30 men raid got some tough shield phase(or need to burst down boss's HP to a point or wipe) mechanic, Ktera will has higher chance( advantage) to get through that phase because the extra 10-25% damage from the talent system. ( just like Ktera can buy red dps crystals and we can't, How do are we going to get through SSHM imporator shield phase without the offensive crystals damage boost?)

Well we already have offensive crystals in NA tera and sshm shield is easy to break with a good team. A dps and myself (as lancer) broke the shield once when aggro switched to another dps because someone else died at the wrong time. It's not hard to break most times for dps. We have enough boost from the party and mostly I believe the person playing behind whatever class they're playing, have to be good. And we don't need boost to all classes in damage. I think it would make clearing content too easy and fine the way it is now. They will make appropriate class balances.

But what happen if they nerf all class damage by 30% , can you break shield then? I am not talking about SSHM, i am using SSHM shield phase as an example. We deal 10-20% less damage(missed talent system) than Ktera right? when the 30 men raid released, we will deal 20% less damage during the shield phase in the new 30 men raid( 20% damage is really big difference between break shield or wipe). You getting my point now?

Your example is terrible, players are able to clear SSHM just fine without the talent system.

Pardon me but where are you getting these numbers from?

I highly doubt talents are an overall dps boost of '20%' because that generalization ignores the fact the talents affect classes differently and the tank+healer classes are left out of your consideration.

You also left out the whole grind issue of talents that would lead to a difference between players who have optimally utilized several months of talent points vs players who have done neither.

BHS may have questionable balance design decisions but they always make sure players can participate in end game content within casual amounts if time investment. To make the benefits of this heavy time sink a requirement for this hyped up raid would would tantamount to content [filtered].

You seem to be familiar enough with both talents and the 30 man raid to conclude with confidence how much dps gain the system confers across the board regardless of time investment and exactly how beefy the shield mechanics are so that this extra dps is mandatory to success. Can you show us how you came to this conclusion and the numbers that lead you to them?

Squishies wrote: »

Can you show us how you came to this conclusion and the numbers that lead you to them?

A conspiracy theorist can come up with anything!

Ginjitsu wrote: »

Squishies wrote: »

Can you show us how you came to this conclusion and the numbers that lead you to them?

A conspiracy theorist can come up with anything!

they even created a shield mechanic in a unreleased dungeon

This guy is still at it? Can a gm just jail him or something? This thread is so clickbait, lmfao.

Squishies wrote: »

Pardon me but where are you getting these numbers from?

I highly doubt talents are an overall dps boost of '20%' because that generalization ignores the fact the talents affect classes differently and the tank+healer classes are left out of your consideration.

You also left out the whole grind issue of talents that would lead to a difference between players who have optimally utilized several months of talent points vs players who have done neither.

BHS may have questionable balance design decisions but they always make sure players can participate in end game content within casual amounts if time investment. To make the benefits of this heavy time sink a requirement for this hyped up raid would would tantamount to content [filtered].

You seem to be familiar enough with both talents and the 30 man raid to conclude with confidence how much dps gain the system confers across the board regardless of time investment and exactly how beefy the shield mechanics are so that this extra dps is mandatory to success. Can you show us how you came to this conclusion and the numbers that lead you to them?

if you ask those questions; mean you didn't read the whole thread from the beginning before you judge.

Jace21 wrote: »

if you ask those questions; mean you didn't read the whole thread from the beginning before you judge.

I actually DID read the whole thread, against my better judgement, and cannot find the answers to the specific questions I asked.

So, where are you getting your numbers for the talents and raid mechanics from? If you are insisting on specific changes to the game based on specific scenarios, then surely I can source those calculations and come to the same conclusion as you did... if only I had access to the same information as you do.

@Moroku why you still here then? Your comment is the clickbait, lmao.

Jace21 wrote: »

@Moroku why you still here then? Your comment is the clickbait, lmao.

@Jace21
Moroku isn't the one that created this clickbait thread ¬.¬

Jace21 wrote: »

Let's say; you 9000 damage to break the shield phase in the 30men raid. in Ktera people can deal 10800 damage during shield phase . And we(NA) can only deal 8640(10800*(1-20%) ) during the 30 men raid's shield phase( mean wipe). How do you feel about that now? we wipe cause we don't have that damage boost( will you still say, it is ok? just skip this new 30 men raid all together).

Ugh.. IF, only IF, the instance is not winnable by any party in the non talent regions, then the devs will be forced to fix it. There's no question nor excuse about it. If only a few select groups of extremely coordinated, fully geared professional players can clear it, then the instance is doing it's job as intended.

I guess Tera play just get used to take shi t from BHS, If this was happened in WOW many will stop subscribing the game and riot already.

Jace21 wrote: »

I guess Tera play just get used to take shi t from BHS, If this was happened in WOW many will stop subscribing the game and riot already.

Unlike you, some people can accept reality. And since when do basement dwellers riot?

Even though Tera is Free2Play, you can just quit if you think its not worth it.

Nice comparing a full f2p game with a visually outdated pay to play game. 10/10 would compare again.
Cut it out, friend. The pros don't want it and the casuals don't care. So just sit back and enjoy the ride.

I compare Tera to a p2p outdated game, because Tera can't even beat a outdated game in populations and revenues.

WTB complete version of tera

WTB jailtime for this OP. Who's with me? \o/

null
What did I done? OP life matter

Says Tera can't beat a outdated p2p game in population and revenue even though said game is years older than Tera and in terms of revenue oh idk maybe cause it's a p2p. OFC Tera won't beat it in those two aspects.

Much Sense

The main reason why I believe comparing Tera and WoW is a no go is that Blizzard is a multi billion dollar company able to push massive amounts of money into their outdated game. Also, note that I just said "visually outdated". The rest of the game has had a lot of changes (Those that also happened to push out veterans of the vanilla game to never come back to it) to temper the game for the current times. BHS and EME are still small, still mostly unknown companies amid a sea of MMOs.

Now. I'm not trying to convince you to my point. I'm just expressing it. Keep believing in your opinion and keep voicing it and if you feel posting about it here will convince BHS and EME to change the game to your needs and wants, then by all means, be my guest. The only thing I can advise is to keep a calm mind and know so many more people are against your idea, so you will get a lot of flak.

Taking slightly longer to kill something doesn't make it harder.

Jace21 wrote: »

WTB complete version of tera

https://www.amazon.com/Tera-Exclusively-Best-Blue-Roan-Mount/dp/B008LEW7MQ/

You gotta try one way or another.

I didn't market for the 30men

How can you kill the dragon in the taser without talent system?

Jace21 wrote: »

How can you kill the dragon in the taser without talent system?

By hitting it hard and not getting hit by it as much? <.<

Nopi wrote: »

Jace21 wrote: »

How can you kill the dragon in the taser without talent system?

By hitting it hard and not getting hit by it as much? <.<

Nice, you took the bait. : /

Brotherbros wrote: »

Nopi wrote: »

Jace21 wrote: »

How can you kill the dragon in the taser without talent system?

By hitting it hard and not getting hit by it as much? <.<

Nice, you took the bait. : /

Nah. This one won't stop easily like the others. Then again, I was bored.

We can do the 30 man without the talent system all we have to do is keep practice read guild and watch video beside, the talent system is broken so we will never ever get it we had done all the other dungeon easily ,so this one should be cake I'll say it wil be mabye not even a full week and most people will have clear runs and will want something to do.

Hum. But can we at least get some NA exclusive system/item? Like a moose flying mount? @Spacecats may o get a free mount if this idea ever help you guys make some money

@Jace21

you do realize some of NA player can easily compete with KTERA players even without talents right?

But I want more than 45% of NA players to be able to compete .

Err. No thanks. Tera is already too easy w/o the talents.

Only scrubs want it easier.

That s how the company make money. Extreme elitism will stop/slow down the game's population grow which relate to company's revenue (is more complicated that this but.....). Without people like:" wow,Tera is so cool. Hum... Let me buy this cool mount/dress for my level 56 Elin warrior.... They won't have the money to do the "revamp" they are doing.

Jace21 wrote: »

Hum. But can we at least get some NA exclusive system/item? Like a moose flying mount? Spacecats may i get a free mount if this idea ever help you guys make some money

the tera rewards system is currently exclusive to our version

Harder in NA? This is not the old TERA anymore, most of the avid pve players are more than expert at the game. The hardest part about this raid is finding 30 decent people. Otherwise its just going to be another farm dungeon lol.

Much click, Such bait. wow

Why the heck we only getting the pay to win system as exclusive ....

Why is everyone having such a hard time understanding OP's point?! It's a fairly simple concept. If the dungeon is design to require, say, 35mil dps and the maximum a group can achieve without talents is 34mil/s, then that group is screwed. There is a limit to how good one can get, once you've reached it, that's it.

Oh, and, the 20% came from somebody OPPOSING OP,

Then we will use slaying... duh.

TWMagimay wrote: »

Why is everyone having such a hard time understanding OP's point?! It's a fairly simple concept. If the dungeon is design to require, say, 35mil dps and the maximum a group can achieve without talents is 34mil/s, then that group is screwed. There is a limit to how good one can get, once you've reached it, that's it.

Oh, and, the 20% came from somebody OPPOSING OP,

I said it before in this thread but will say it again. If even the best groups can't complete the content because even perfect runs do too little dps, THEN the content is at fault and will be fixed, because it's the responsibility of the developers to create content that people can complete if they do what's required of them. If by the end of the day, the content can be completed but only by the most dedicated of groups, then the content is doing as intended.

TWMagimay wrote: »

Why is everyone having such a hard time understanding OP's point?! It's a fairly simple concept. If the dungeon is design to require, say, 35mil dps and the maximum a group can achieve without talents is 34mil/s, then that group is screwed. There is a limit to how good one can get, once you've reached it, that's it.

TWMagimay wrote: »

Why is everyone having such a hard time understanding OP's point?! It's a fairly simple concept. If the dungeon is design to require, say, 35mil dps and the maximum a group can achieve without talents is 34mil/s, then that group is screwed. There is a limit to how good one can get, once you've reached it, that's it.

Oh, and, the 20% came from somebody OPPOSING OP,

You clearly have no idea how big the difference between "good" and "bad" group can be.
Take queen for example, the lowest dps requirement would be around 2mps (given ppl would just reset if it's pass the timer), but the highest dps achievable would be more than 4 to 5mps, both with the same gears/party comp, and a good dps can easily pull 10 times higher dps than a floormat, not to mention 20 of them.
You think that a small dps boost would be somewhat relevant compare to the huge difference just from being "good" or "bad" ? If I had to carry in that 2mps queen run, even if we cleared I would rather to not run with them again, instead of hoping for some dps boost so that same party can do it easier next time.

Sylviette wrote: »

TWMagimay wrote: »

Why is everyone having such a hard time understanding OP's point?! It's a fairly simple concept. If the dungeon is design to require, say, 35mil dps and the maximum a group can achieve without talents is 34mil/s, then that group is screwed. There is a limit to how good one can get, once you've reached it, that's it.

Oh, and, the 20% came from somebody OPPOSING OP,

You clearly have no idea how big the difference between "good" and "bad" group can be.
Take queen for example, the lowest dps requirement would be around 2mps (given ppl would just reset if it's pass the timer), but the highest dps achievable would be more than 4 to 5mps, both with the same gears/party comp, and a good dps can easily pull 10 times higher dps than a floormat, not to mention 20 of them.
You think that a small dps boost would be somewhat relevant compare to the huge difference just from being "good" or "bad" ? If I had to carry in that 2mps queen run, even if we cleared I would rather to not run with them again, instead of hoping for some dps boost so that same party can do it easier next time.

I have a very good idea of the difference between good and bad groups. It just has nothing to do with whether a good group is able to reach a certain dps threshold or not. I don't think anybody(except maybe you) is talking about bad groups. The point you missed is that there is a limit on how much dps you can do even if you are the best of the best.

TWMagimay wrote: »

The point you missed is that there is a limit on how much dps you can do even if you are the best of the best.

This, absolutely.

It is why most gearing strategies emphasis maximizing offensive capabilities.


However, the next question that follows OP's train of thought HURRHURR would be:

• How do we know how much DPS we need to clear this dungeon?
• How would we know much optimal DPS we can expect to achieve with the gear from the next content?
• How much DPS bonus does the talent system confer?

Somehow, the OP knows the answer to those questions above to conclude that clearing the raid would impossible without the talent system, regardless of analysis class compositions, skill averages, cost VS benefits of having the talent system and many other factors brought in by people discussing the merit of his suggestion... which he flatly disregards while continuously pushing for straight up damage beefs across the board with or without the talent system.

Ulterior motives? I don't know but his constant demands to know what class is top DPS and if his favourite class will get future buffs is telling... nevermind how this person can easily tell the future of class DPS balance for newly released raid but cannot predict how Gunner DPS balance nor top DPS class rankings in that same context.

Who said KTERA content is designed behind the talent system. The system there is just a bonus (a broken bonus I might add) but it was never needed to clear anything period.

People are misunderstanding and overestimating BHS's ability to actually balance.

1. Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions, over and over and over again. Why assume when the dungeon is not even released? Everytime we were informed about new dungeon, people assumed "Oh, it's not going to be hard at all". Now people are suddenly crying over how talent system have ruined it. Look at SSHM and MM. A single DPS class can carry the entire run if DPS requirement is the problem, and I've seen it happen many times.

2. BHS clearly have said they will "adjust balance of the dungeon based on gear". This means, Lilith +12 for stage 1~2, Captivation (VM8) +12 for stage 3, and Imperator +15 for stage 4. However, they also stated "it has not been strictly balanced accordingly as the focus is on the cooperation and the control of the raid rather than the level of the gear."

Source: Seraphinush's Translations

This means, as long as your raid have complete cooperation, a certain level of skill, experience/familiarity with dungeon, you should be able to clear it.

3. BHS only looks at visible data on Inven or whatever they can find. And I can tell you, Inven alone is not going to make the 30 man raid impossible if such DPS requirement exists. I see way too many NA players who can achieve equal or better DPS than KTERA DPS posts on Inven. I highly doubt BHS developers even know what the maximum potenial can be for their own game's classes. So these "limitations" you think, I can tell you that it's safe to assume that BHS only knows 60% of what each class can really do-- especially Brawler. Oh btw, they take the data and take average, so you don't have to worry about requiring 3M/s for Reaper, Sorcerer, Ninja, and Brawler, with 2M/s or 1.5M/s for others.

4. BHS seems like they are clueless about how much talents can affect certain class's DPS. Lancer, Brawler, and Ninja are the ones that benefits the highest, while Warrior and Berserker doesn't seem to gain much from it. What does BHS think about this? They're aware of imbalance, but they aren't looking into it until November or so, which is when all class balance adjustments have been made.

5. I just want to say, people are being oversensitive for no reason. It's funny because I see some NA/EU players boast about how easy the dungeons are after watching KTERA gameplay, then they try it, immediately blame on not having Talent system when they can't clear-- clearly not the case, seeing how many players can pretty much catch up to KTERA level of gameplay even without talents. It's only matter of skill, experience, and familiarity.

There is always a limit in video game..... , Tera is not olyphic ( missing 10% modifier mean missing 10% maximum output protiental that's) simple. And the one said if the best group can't clear the content they will just "fix"(nerf) it..... NA best group can't clear doesn't mean ktera best group(which height talent point) can't clear.

Jace21 wrote: »

There is always a limit in video game..... , Tera is not olyphic ( missing 10% modifier mean missing 10% maximum output protiental that's) simple. And the one said if the best group can't clear the content they will just "fix"(nerf) it..... NA best group can't clear doesn't mean ktera best group(which height talent point) can't clear.

I was the one saying that and I stand by it. If none in NA can beat the content even with perfect runs, chances are none of the non talent regions will be able to beat it as well. And if only kTera can beat the content because of the talent system, the content will either be globally nerfed or nerfed for the non talent regions. Though it'd be more likely that it will be globally nerfed.

Though that was just a supposition. As IdioticGenius said, BHS at least has the mind to make content that all regions can clear, talents or not.

Or they can buff non talent region instead

Jace21 wrote: »

Or they can buff non talent region instead

Do you design the dungeon yourself? How do you know it is impossible to clear without the talent system?

I understand that your might be bad and therefore lack confidence. But it does not apply to the rest of us. Also there are multiple ways to help you get good.

VirtualON wrote: »

Jace21 wrote: »

Or they can buff non talent region instead

Do you design the dungeon yourself? How do you know it is impossible to clear without the talent system?

I understand that your might be bad and therefore lack confidence. But it does not apply to the rest of us. Also there are multiple ways to help you get good.

As far as i am concerned, this raid will not even be hard at all, given if i find enough people playing at my level and above, which should be possible.

@VirtualON Did you design the raid yourself ? How do you know it is clear able without talent system?

Jace21 wrote: »

VirtualON Did you design the raid yourself ? How do you know it is clearable without talent system?

@Jace21
Because nTera can clear SSHM and Dreadspire Uppers just fine without the talent system.

We won the WW1 and 2 does it mean we will win in the Vietnam war? @Ginjitsu

Jace21 wrote: »

We won the WW1 and 2 does it mean we will win in the Vietnam war? @Ginjitsu

Holy sh@t, you are autistik as [filtered]. LMFAO

Jace21 wrote: »

We won the WW1 and 2 does it mean we will win in the Vietnam war? @Ginjitsu

Yes ¬.¬

It's clear nothing will change OP's opinion. It's also fact we don't have the content to see for ourselves. He wants a buff. He won't get it. That's also clear. This thread has been the combination of a brick wall and hitting a dead horse since page 2. Continue at your own will.

How can you be so sure we ain't getting a buff? Are you one of the dev or working at EME? @Nopi

@Ginjitsu just want to let you know we lost the Vietnam war.

Jace21 wrote: »

How can you be so sure we ain't getting a buff? Are you one of the dev or working at EME? @Nopi

You are right. I'm not a dev. So neither you nor I have any idea what will they do with their game. But a dev isn't needed to see trends, statistics and other kinds of data and update history. Now, as I said before. I'm not telling you nor asking you to stop posting your opinions. I just post my opinion and that's it. My opinion. Keep posting yours because you are free to do so.

What does War have to do with the current topic? please elaborate.

We were able to clear everything that KTERA did, and Talent System makes not that much difference. Look at SSHM scores and DSU times. We have very good amount of NA players that can produce at least 90% of KTERA's top 10 player's performance, or even better.

Why are you so chickened out by this 30 man raid? Are you not confident? This is where people begin to split from normal players (not necessarily casual) and end-game players. You have to face whatever is coming toward you and accept the Developer's challenge. The real communication, and the best interaction a player and a developer can have is through players exploring contents that developers made.

Where is your sense of challenge? If the dungeon is difficult, it's a good thing (unless it's some bs mechanic). I've always backed away from end-game dungeons until my guild members pushed me into them. I'm glad they did, because it's really no different from any dungeon-- as long as you get familiar with the dungeon mechanics, it's easy.

Have you ever ran dungeons with real end game players? I did, and I feel bad because I did nothing compared to them. I'm lucky that I was able to run with them, experiencing what it is really like to be end-game player. That's my goal right now to be able to keep up with them.

Let me remind you, BHS dev have told us that this 30 man raid is based on raid's performance as a whole, meaning, cooperation can be essential to clear the dungeon. You are clearly underestimating yourself and TERA community as a whole, as well as overestimating BHS's real ability to balance things out. Seriously, look back at all the patch notes and tell me what you see.

I'll tell you what I see:
Nerf dungeon
Nerf dungeon
Nerf dungeon
Buff character
Buff character
Buff character... maybe nerf this a bit but BUFF CHARACTER
what is a warrior tank?

Jace21 wrote: »

Ginjitsu just want to let you know we lost the Vietnam war.

@Jace21
Just to let you know Vietnam War has yet to be released ¬.¬

@Idi0ticGenius
Let him be. We already explained but he's adamant in requesting this buff. No amount of explanation will make him believe he doesn't need a buff. And I say he alone because even me who will not even try the raid becauseofweakling, don't feel the need of a buff at all. This is really beating on a dead horse. Only that the maggots already ate the horse and there's no horse anymore. Maybe in the afterlife we can beat on the horse's ghost or something. >.<

Let s watch " queen of the south"

I hope we can queue this :^)

Please don't make IMS for 30men raid. that s wipe fest.

And the korean spent 20+mins just get an ok group and wipe in 30sec.... that is sad af(from twitch)

Jace21 wrote: »

And the korean spent 20+mins just get an ok group and wipe in 30sec.... that is sad af(from twitch)

It's new instance, hardest content so far, makes sense that they might wipe right away.

It took an average Raid only 5 hours to complete stage 1. The dungeon is confirmed easy.

VirtualON wrote: »

It took an average Raid only 5 hours to complete stage 1. The dungeon is confirmed easy.

Wipe animation is pretty cool though.

Honestly... this.

If people think that is long, check SCHM.

aadsadasdsfafasfafsaf

Rip they buffed 30men raid(HP, shield phase's shield , damage,etc) http://www.essentialmana.com/news/82530-and-91-patches/

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jOhDMv4iTWjTYh6bWEyEbvddtELtC3FVriXlJ0IyNRc/edit#gid=0

Don't worry, we have p2w dragons now

korean have it too and the new 30men stream yesterday look harder already

Now you are being too loosen up on your conquest for internet attention again.

*report*

Everyone else should as well. We put this person down before, and we can do it again.

Idi0ticGenius wrote: »

What does War have to do with the current topic? please elaborate.

We were able to clear everything that KTERA did, and Talent System makes not that much difference. Look at SSHM scores and DSU times. We have very good amount of NA players that can produce at least 90% of KTERA's top 10 player's performance, or even better.

Why are you so chickened out by this 30 man raid? Are you not confident? This is where people begin to split from normal players (not necessarily casual) and end-game players. You have to face whatever is coming toward you and accept the Developer's challenge. The real communication, and the best interaction a player and a developer can have is through players exploring contents that developers made.

Where is your sense of challenge? If the dungeon is difficult, it's a good thing (unless it's some bs mechanic). I've always backed away from end-game dungeons until my guild members pushed me into them. I'm glad they did, because it's really no different from any dungeon-- as long as you get familiar with the dungeon mechanics, it's easy.

Have you ever ran dungeons with real end game players? I did, and I feel bad because I did nothing compared to them. I'm lucky that I was able to run with them, experiencing what it is really like to be end-game player. That's my goal right now to be able to keep up with them.

Let me remind you, BHS dev have told us that this 30 man raid is based on raid's performance as a whole, meaning, cooperation can be essential to clear the dungeon. You are clearly underestimating yourself and TERA community as a whole, as well as overestimating BHS's real ability to balance things out. Seriously, look back at all the patch notes and tell me what you see.

I'll tell you what I see:
Nerf dungeon
Nerf dungeon
Nerf dungeon
Buff character
Buff character
Buff character... maybe nerf this a bit but BUFF CHARACTER
what is a warrior tank?

This right here, well said.

Assuming that the 30 man raid will be too hard in our region is the wrong focus going in. Just like any challenge, we won't ever know how it is till we try it. Most players, especially myself am always up for new challenges and difficulty. Everything always seems hard at first but eventually we figure out a way to clear it.

I can't stress enough how many hard mode dungeons I been through on my lancer when the new dungeons came out in the past and told myself before hand how difficult they are at first but found a way to clear them. Some of them being BRHM, AIHM, TSHM, FIHM, SCHM, SSHM and DSU. The last 3 were the most difficult, dsu being at the top. When I cleared queen (first time when we had ds3), I realized that everything I've done up to this point is not that hard anymore. But the experience I gained, my confidence level is pretty high and I will use that when I try to learn the 30 man raid. People need to always have a positive mind going into something new and while it may be frustrating, it will take time and eventually people will figure it out. Also not to have the mindset of being carried but rather think about what you can do to bear your own weight to the party. One person can make a difference between saving a wipe or causing one.

If anything, I think a lot of team work and communication will be key in a challenging 30 man raid and most importantly the management of the raid. When something new and difficult approaches, we have to prepare for it and accept the challenge. There were people posting videos on twitch/youtube and also recently a full detailed guide was posted on reddit. I'd recommend to use the time to prepare at least ahead of time to get an idea; we still have plenty of time before we get in NA. When that time comes and people are not ready, don't make excuses that there was no time to read a guide and prepare ahead.

Jace21 wrote: »

korean have it too and the new 30men stream yesterday look harder already

So ¬.¬?

It just means NA will get a worthwhile dungeon.

I actually do not think that this whole problem is about who is doing high dps with or without something.
But the possibility that it will exclude people from running 30 man raid content because of it

I will try to explain my thoughts, but it is possible that due to English not being my mothertounge I won't be able to.

Examples of players who can beat korean dps without talents do not represent the whole community and it is entirely worthless to put out examples of them, they can make 1 raid and clear but this is a core content of the end-game, thus should be available to lesser gods as well.

And I do think that like every content DPS matters, even if it is about "mechanics and raid coordination", still at some point (shield? concentration time?) only dps matters.

Why is dps not high enough?
1. Because we do not have talents. Imagine the crit resist on priest TN boosts the dps of the whole raid, so it is not purely about individual performance only.
2. Because we do not play with 0 ping - those best NA dps players who you quote are most possibly playing with low ping, but we not like KR have players with higher ping, even within the US some has "not optimal ping" for certain things.
It can cause more wipes due to longer learning curves of things (why does the game put me on the red tile when I am not on it?), which is quite harsh considering this content will take more time to learn as it is more difficult.

So the fact is that we have no talents, and worse circumstances.

Let review what tiers of players we have in a grossly general way:

KR uber level and NA uber level gods- still clears easily, because they are pro, etc. Comparing them is not worthy.
|
|
KR upper good lvl - NA low uber level - People who are good players, but their circumstances are not optimal, or they simply reached their potential, etc.
|
|
KR good People - NA upper good lvl - same as above
|
Content lvl
|
KR average people - NA good people

I imagine they put the content level somewhere there. Where the average KR player can't clear it or with great efforts.
But due to no talents, and worse circumstances I imagine this will exclude people from running this content, who would be able to clear and do content if they would have the same circumstances as KR players, so talents, lower ping, etc.

Some of you will say that these people should make their own raids, git gud, etc. BUT this is not a 5-man, 7-man content.
This is a 30 man content, not as easy to put together a 30 man raid.
Easier to carry bad people, but the DPS meter certainly won't lie, so there might not be a next time.

Finally, we play the same game as them, yet more people of out playerbase is potentially excluded from running this content due to not scaling it to our average level.
And as we all know, less content, less end-gamers, less players do not make a game great.
(yes, elitism in Tera is real, suprise!)

The people falling for this is so funny. The OP doesn't care, just trolling. lmao

Get over it. A endgame dungeon is called endgame for a [filtered] good reason. people who cry and dont work to get where they are, don't work to learn the mechanics of dungeons that are simple and require very little thought on how to correctly so them really is irritating. There are very few challenges in This game. Old players will remember. Kelsaiks 20 man, Mchm,Skycruiser, MM ,ABHM, Game of Kaprima TSHM and thats it.

A total of 8 dungeons with actual "difficulty." Everything else in this game is basically a cake walk.I am honestly getting sick of it and people complaing about how hard dit is so BHS /enmass dumb it down. The other problem being There are no awsome memorable fights, after those seven dungeons mentioned. Most of the game characters are forgettable or serve the purpose of a [filtered] plot full of errors doesn't help.

Boss mechanics basically revive around is just about dodging the little red spot that shows up or where the hardmode bosses attack is saying dodge now or killing enemy mobs to amke sure they don't do damage or buff or whatever. And thats basically all the mechanicsbfpr evey dungeon in Tera.

There have been exceptions where there were actual mechanics for some fights that didnt revolve around just solely on dodging boss attacks. For example Tshm, where you had to click the boss when you boot that bar up to a certain percentage after getting rhe boss fairly low in hps. But these are few and far in-between. And not enough. For four years this game has little to show on its improvements or gameplay.

Now we finally get a big boss radidand people whine that its too tough?/ Too easy without even playing it.. give me a [filtered] break.

Another note, Enmass this honestly didn't have to be a 30 man raid ya have any clue how hard this will be to get coordinated? 30 people so that means like 10/7 healers 4-5 tanks or more and the rest is just dps? Ya could of made it a 25 man or 20 would of made it easier to get that many people together but ya went waay too big.

With the little amount of loot this boss drops that's gonna be along time to roll for things with very veery few people getting anything out of it for killing such a big boss.

Unless it's made to be *3 for the drops this boss is going to make or maybe just double alot of people aren't going to be happy. Also 30 man raid?


How many guilds I wonder actually have 30 people on to get together for this lets see amaterasu,Manifest,Solunar, have alot of people.

But given your limitations on how many people can actually be invited to a guild these days they would only be able to put 3 raids together considering the person cap is 100. So that leaves 10 people who need to go form another raid or who just will not get to run it.

[filtered] my threat only got to 11 pages while manifest vs Amaterasu threat got 19 pages not fair.

Well you gota remember, it is easier to get gear in our TERA, with enchanting being a lot cheaper due to the materials being less than half price, and enchantment bonus enabling us to +15 in less than half the tries KTERA needs. It is not an exaggeration to say that with the cost of getting one weapon +15 in KTERA, we can get a full set of +15. You might think that +15 armor don't offer the damage we lost from the talents, but you gota remember that most of the wipes is during the shield phases that basically checks if there are enough people alive, and as long as people are alive, it is okay. So having a higher survivability overall with +15 armors does make up for the damage we are missing from the talents. On top of that, the other luxury damage items we can have thanks to having cheaper weapon / semis and others (I'm not sure how much are the dragon/quatrefoil brooch prices in KTERA) will be most likely enough to make up for the damage that we are missing from the talents.

I personally sort of like the fact that it is coming in a harder version in NA due to not having talents, because EME always wanted TERA to be less grindy in NA and made all mats more accessible, resulting in everything being simply easier. Remember those days when KTERA people were clearing SCHM for the first time with discovery gear, NA people could just gear carry through it with +15 renegade gear. This time, I feel like not having talents is a good compensation for having cheaper gear to make the difficulty of the new dungeon around the same in KTERA and NATERA.

well if you know every class will got the basice 23power(at level 20 power talent and some crit on certain skills) that alone is already a huge damage buff (consider how many points you need to get 5 power from the guild passive) , beside this baisce buff there are also many op buffs for cdr , damage, etc

Well you get 4 power from each jewleries roll ( so 3x4 = 12 , so the level 20 power talent alone is already huge damage boost let alone other talents-some class have better talents tho) well i would say if you farm on 12 alts for 4-5 months your main character will have coule level 20 talent which will give you at least 10-15% damage increase. ofc you don't give a shoe faster dungeon runs/easier to break shield or not... right? 25mins run is the same as 18 mins run right(using sshm for example)

You can't miss what you never had. So just like literally all content since talents existed, it doesn't matter for us. We'll do it the same anyway with no sense of handicap.

Loveberri wrote: »

You can't miss what you never had. So just like literally all content since talents existed, it doesn't matter for us. We'll do it the same anyway with no sense of handicap.

Well, your logic is saying something like "we never had red and black dragons why people cry about getting the farmable tokens and not accept that buying from store / someone else are the only way to get dragon passive You just not very bright aren't you? We (EME/NEOX) buying the same game from BHS, yet we are not getting what we paid for .... and you are ok with it ( and even try to justify it) is like you and yo

Shouldn't be a problem, even if NA version is tougher.

When KN20 came out, ktera already had class buffs (Huge Energy Stars, etc). We had KN20 without the class buffs, and we still cleared it fine.

Yeah 12 pages 9 more to go

Hey guys listen up. We can get this person suspended again. This person is breaking the rule and making it too obvious.

B. Spamming and Post Content
- Posts with minimal or no content.
- Posts that do not contribute to the overall conversation.
- Posts made only to "bump" a thread to the front page of that forum section.
- Dredging up dead threads (AKA necroing threads). Any thread inactive for over a month constitutes a dead thread.



Type up your reasons and that's it! We had several people doing it and action was taken. Report up. o7

I prefer him bumping a thread than opening another one, besides that this thread was made to discuss the effect talents and dragons will make when clearing 30 man.

a

Wafflebowl wrote: »

Shouldn't be a problem, even if NA version is tougher.

When KN20 came out, ktera already had class buffs (Huge Energy Stars, etc). We had KN20 without the class buffs, and we still cleared it fine.

@Wafflebowl

Ever though about why is that?

Because end-game content is not created for top 1-2% of the population. Therefore even not godlike people should be able to clear it.

Just for an example: content is created so top 25% of players can clear it consistently.
NA does not have the advantages ktera players have, but since it is not overly hard content (so that a decent amount of players can clear it, thats why this is an mmorpg!) in NA top 20% of players can clear it.

The problem here is the 5% (just an example) we loose here. Less people to clear content, less people to play with.
Content is not adjusted to cater to the same amount of people.

Of course population who can clear increases by the day, of course harcore players want harder content.
But you do realize this is not a 5-man content. This is 30 man content, the problem is greater here.
It won't be such an integrated part of the game if there are not enough people who can just make an lfg and find decent players who can clear. Like how on smaller servers even the population who can clear DS or SSHM is small.

And talents give such advantages, like extra i-frame skill for archer with feign death, extra crit reduction with TN, extra dmg for most classes... etc.
Which is a great advatage given that the boss will have a trillion-zillion HP and one-shot mechanisms.

Shikine wrote: »

a

Wafflebowl wrote: »

Shouldn't be a problem, even if NA version is tougher.

When KN20 came out, ktera already had class buffs (Huge Energy Stars, etc). We had KN20 without the class buffs, and we still cleared it fine.

@Wafflebowl

Ever though about why is that?

Because end-game content is not created for top 1-2% of the population. Therefore even not godlike people should be able to clear it.

Just for an example: content is created so top 25% of players can clear it consistently.
NA does not have the advantages ktera players have, but since it is not overly hard content (so that a decent amount of players can clear it, thats why this is an mmorpg!) in NA top 20% of players can clear it.

The problem here is the 5% (just an example) we loose here. Less people to clear content, less people to play with.
Content is not adjusted to cater to the same amount of people.

Of course population who can clear increases by the day, of course harcore players want harder content.
But you do realize this is not a 5-man content. This is 30 man content, the problem is greater here.
It won't be such an integrated part of the game if there are not enough people who can just make an lfg and find decent players who can clear. Like how on smaller servers even the population who can clear DS or SSHM is small.

And talents give such advantages, like extra i-frame skill for archer with feign death, extra crit reduction with TN, extra dmg for most classes... etc.
Which is a great advatage given that the boss will have a trillion-zillion HP and one-shot mechanisms.

Difference between top 1% and top 20% is huge.

Apparently, some( @Brotherbros ) can't take a joke( sarcasm toward the mani-Ama CU post- which got over 20 pages overnight). I am sure that you contributed a lot value to this thread ( the effect of talent system to other regions or NA'pvpve) by calling out people and instigate people actions:) thank you for taking a forum about online game so serious, and many gratitudes to your attention toward my post rather your real life or the actual game(I am sure, it is hard for you to get time to do this, consider how busy you are with real life)

sincere j21

They don't give you(talent system) before and don't won't give you now!! Just like the free dragon tokens( you don't get them now nor ever)!!

I support brotherbros he is going to make Tera forum great again!! Let's call out names, post unrelated comments and build a wall to block the maxican

I've removed some content from this thread. Please remember, no callouts in the forums. It leads to witch hunting, which we want to avoid! Thanks everyone!

Smoreceror wrote: »

I've removed some content from this thread. Please remember, no callouts in the forums. It leads to witch hunting, which we want to avoid! Thanks everyone!

New gm?

Smoreceror wrote: »

I've removed some content from this thread. Please remember, no callouts in the forums. It leads to witch hunting, which we want to avoid! Thanks everyone!

Welcome to the forums stranger!

@Spacecats Should present him/her tomorrow on the stream ^^

Smoreceror wrote: »

I've removed some content from this thread. Please remember, no callouts in the forums. It leads to witch hunting, which we want to avoid! Thanks everyone!

I see your name and all I can think of is S'mores

maybe they nerf the boss" HP in NA

The 30 man raid was designed based on what someone can do with gear sets and glyphs and the normal stuff, they hardly account for the talent system in ktera for dungeons, all the talent system does for ktera is give them more dps and an easier time than other regions in dungeons. The only thing that will be hard about the 30 man raid is its a 30 man raid. There is literally nothing hard about the raid itself.

Felhammer wrote: »

You've been out of the loop then.

Since we're not getting the talent system we're getting class balance patches PLUS the up coming class re vamps. It'll be a cake walk as per the norm. PvE as always. Beyond a joke now.

That won't stop people from trying to IMS the thing and expecting a tanknspank/carry run then running to the forums about A. Game2hard or B. Elitism

Chaotix453 wrote: »

Felhammer wrote: »

You've been out of the loop then.

Since we're not getting the talent system we're getting class balance patches PLUS the up coming class re vamps. It'll be a cake walk as per the norm. PvE as always. Beyond a joke now.

That won't stop people from trying to IMS the thing and expecting a tanknspank/carry run then running to the forums about A. Game2hard or B. Elitism

It is not available through IM.

Shikine wrote: »

Chaotix453 wrote: »

Felhammer wrote: »

You've been out of the loop then.

Since we're not getting the talent system we're getting class balance patches PLUS the up coming class re vamps. It'll be a cake walk as per the norm. PvE as always. Beyond a joke now.

That won't stop people from trying to IMS the thing and expecting a tanknspank/carry run then running to the forums about A. Game2hard or B. Elitism

It is not available through IM.

Sorry, pretend I said LFG and it all works again.

New gm yeah

uehuehuehuheuheu wrote: »

New gm?

Hi there! Yup, I'm a new community manager at EME. I'll be focusing most of my attention on AVA but you might see me around the TERA forums as well. I actually posted an intro over in the AVA forums if you want to see pictures of my cats:

http://forums.enmasse.com/ava/discussion/2899/community-manager-introduction

Kalinda wrote: »

I see your name and all I can think of is S'mores

I'm a S'more Sorceror!

Fleett wrote: »

Welcome to the forums stranger!

@Spacecats Should present him/her tomorrow on the stream ^^

Thanks for the warm welcome! A stream appearance will be happening soon!

Anyways, don't want to distract from raid discussion. Back to the topic at hand!

I watched the stream yesterday. You should try light blue hair

Hot pink is better!

System Talent=ez asf.

What did I told you guys. All those white knights are idiots. So we got raid cleared 30 man already. But compare NA first raid(got all information) to KTera 2nd raid. They have much easier time to break phase4 shields with talent system.and our top notch raid(full with vm8 + 1/2dragon passive) can barely pass the shield phase while more than 28 players are up. Those Ktera raid can easily break the last shield phase with 25+ people up(and couple of dos were in vm7). 1-3 phase looks like rather easy(to done in 1-4hours). We demand talent system for NA too.

Jace21 wrote: »

What did I told you guys. All those white knights are idiots. So we got raid cleared 30 man already. But compare NA first raid(got all information) to KTera 2nd raid. They have much easier time to break phase4 shields with talent system.and our top notch raid(full with vm8 + 1/2dragon passive) can barely pass the shield phase while more than 28 players are up. Those Ktera raid can easily break the last shield phase with 25+ people up(and couple of dos were in vm7). 1-3 phase looks like rather easy(to done in 1-4hours). We demand talent system for NA too.

You not gonna stop right? Do you realize how grind talents system is? You get exp for doing vanguards. But to able some good talents you need at least lvl 100. And to get that lvl you must grind as same getting Tera Rewards tier from 0 to 10 only through vanguards. So if you are not farming 24/7 good luck getting a high talent level.

How would be harder. NA was the region that took less time to clear. Ktera with their OP talents took 3 days.
Give 2 months of pratice and people will start clearing without any kind of problem

He has to make himself relevant in this forums, otherwise he's gonna regress to being a sad nobody.

Why hasn't the OP been banned yet and this thread closed? Person is obviously baiting for internet attention.

@Ketoth are you dump ? NA got the most time to prepare ( we are the last region release 30 men) . People that run the raid in KT or EU can comeback and tell they raid exactly what to do, and there are 100s videos with different Classes POV online there are even 2-5 guides regarding the raid or someone translate the Korean guide. You comparing 3-4 months study and preparation to KTERA first clear( who has no [filtered] idea what they get into- they wipe to know 1 mech and wipe for any imperfect move.) NA is skipped all those wiping to learn mech, they got lead by someone complete the raid before. How the [filtered] you put this two in comparison. And suck you popo [filtered]. None of you is somebody. Just another keyboard warrior online. Don't overrated yourself insects

NA TERA cleared the raid on first day of release without talents.

Regardless of pioneering done by KTERA players, yesterday was testament that the clearing the dungeon without the benefits of talents is possible.

We don't need the feature at all to clear the latest content, although that doesn't mean I'm opposed to having a refined version for our region just to have something to improve our characters outside of gear grind.

Only 1 [filtered] raid clear it ( and they are all beast level with maximum gear/dragon/cosumable/skill level possible on NA. There won't be a second raid that is not from their guild/alts that can clear the 30 men by the end of this Sunday. Cuz they are not just the maximum peak of a raid can be , they also near wipe on the last attemp while there was 29 men/women ( they fail the shield phase with 27/28 men standing before). If you even play the raid or watch stream you know get 29/30 people standing ain't even let alone full +15 vm8 raid. Yes even their healers in vm8+15

Just sign up in a new post raise our voice and demand a lesser grindfest version of tatlent system for NA from BHS and EME

Ketoth wrote: »

How would be harder. NA was the region that took less time to clear. Ktera with their OP talents took 3 days.

That's because KTERA cleared it already and the people who cleared it in NA either play the KTERA version or watched streams/videos of KTERA clearing it, over and over, until they knew exactly what to do.

If NA had gotten it first, before KTERA, it would have taken us a lot longer to clear it.